Set Your Big “C” Goal with Kevin Yoder from Yoder Real Estate and Yoder Results! – S1 E5

Kevin is a top 1% producer in the Real Estate business, an accomplished speaker and success coach. In this Living the Dream portion of the “What’s the Benefit” podcast, Dom and Kevin discuss setting your Big “C” Goal! Sometimes the reason we don’t achieve our goals is not because they’re too hard to achieve but because they’re too easy! Kevin and Dom discuss the differences between A, B and C goals and why setting a C goal is the key to achieving all those smaller goals along the way. Check out more from Kevin at his YouTube channel @yoderresults or

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Hey everybody, Dominic Siciliano here for episode five of season one in the What’s the Benefit podcast. This episode is in our series called “Living the Dream.” So those you who know me very well know that when you call me or ask me how I’m doing, I always tell you I’m “living the dream” because, hey, I am living the dream. I’m living my dream…this is what I set out to do all those years when I joined the business. I feel so blessed to be doing this. Along my journey, I met a gentleman named Kevin Yoder. Kevin Yoder owns a real estate agency, Yoder Real Estate. He also has a company called Yoder Results, and he runs some classes on goal setting that I’ve, uh, I partnered with him on and I thought it’d be great in this season of goal setting and thinking about goals to have Kevin on. And with that, I’d love to welcome my friend Kevin Yoder. Kevin, how are you? 

Hey, I’m doing great, man. I’m having a great start 2024 and I’m really excited to have this conversation with you today. Thank you. 

Wonderful. And as I said in my opening, um, I’ve known you now, Kevin, for four or five, gosh, almost more than five years–

Five years, yeah. 

We met an entrepreneurs organization, which is, uh, an organization of small business owners. Uh, we, you…I think we were there for the same reason. We were kind of at a crossroads in our businesses and wanted to make them grow. And we were attracted to EO because you could be around like-minded people who are on the same track. I think together you and I basically did not stay in it, not for any bad reason, it just wasn’t for us. But we became friends. The real estate business, as I said in my opening, is something that I admire folks who have a lot of success in your business because, unlike the benefits business where we have kind of repeat commissions, you start from zero every single day. So, do you mind just telling me your history in the real estate business? For the audience, Kevin runs a very successful real estate agency here in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And just tell us a little bit about how you got your start and where it’s grown. 

Yeah, absolutely. I was bringing it back to the very beginning and I won’t belabor it, but I’ll just give you the entry point into it. I graduated with a degree in criminal justice, so I’m very far removed from what I went to school for. And it just didn’t take me very long to realize that wasn’t my calling and, um, realize that I wanted to be in sales. And so it was a natural thing for me to look at all the possibilities between mortgage and insurance and real estate. And you know, I didn’t want to sell a widget and I’ve done that. I’ve sold widgets. I’ve done door-to-door home security sales and things like that, and cell phones. Real estate was- it just made sense for me because I get to be with people and the product is, you know, a higher price point and it just appealed to me because there’s so many aspects of marketing and negotiating and hustle all tied into that industry. So I jumped in. Now, it’s important to know that until I got into real estate, I counted one day—because I realized I had had quite a few jobs up till that point—but I counted 33.


33 different jobs, yeah, from the age of, I would say, 13 to 30, because I got my license when I was 30. My real estate license when I was 30. And that was it. I mean, so, 21 years later, I’m still in real estate, I’ve gone through the crazy market downturn of 2008, and a couple other interesting events, of course, as we all know what’s going on right now, and continue to thrive in the business… And believe it or not, I still enjoy it! You know, I still love the game and, you know, there’s a lot of changes in my business. You know, the layout and how I’m operating throughout the years. And we can talk about that if you’d like to, but that’s just the starting point of how I got into it.

But I do think, you as an achiever, you’re top 1 percent of producers in the real estate business. And in your business, that’s, uh, you all get those stats quite frequently. And I make that point for you because I know you probably wouldn’t make it about yourself, but I want the audience to understand that Kevin and I are kind of buddies on growth– personal growth and goals. He’s here to talk about goals today. He’s somebody that is a real estate agent. I wouldn’t even call it a day job, but he kind of has two things he does. Real estate agent, and then he also has a coaching business and the coaching business kind of comes with it a little bit…. sometimes people might put a little bit too much into that. Ultimately, he’s a consultant who helps folks set goals and achieve them. That’s the best way I can say it. Right, Kevin?

That’s it. Yeah. What do you want? And how can we help you get there? And then there’s the things that keep us from getting the goals. We can get into that. We’re going to get into all that later on, I assume. But that’s it in a nutshell.

Right, absolutely. So the reason I brought that up is I want the audience to understand. For me, Kevin was a personal friend and he said, “Hey, this is what I’m doing and I’m running this class. And would you like to be part of it?” I did it because I’m always trying to find new ways to get more—not that motivation is a problem for me—but I was just curious about the material he presented to me. And I said that might be an interesting thing to go through. And it really was for me. I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot, but I also, I think it worked for me because I respected what Kevin had done in his personal business, you know. So for me, I want to learn from people who had success. That was you, Kevin. The other thing that I learned through the time working with you, being your friend and talking all the time and all the stuff we’ve done is, there was a point in your real estate career where you were successful, but it wasn’t what you really set out to do. So what I want to do there before we get into the goal setting is–  you started out in 2000, you were 30 years old. So you started out 21 years ago. And kind of in the middle of that career, you kind of had a moment and I feel like that kind of set you toward this path of not just being a real estate agent, but also wanting to be a business owner. So do you mind talking about that a little bit? 

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s probably one of the most important things to identify, really, is this idea of you know–  there’s a book by Steven Pressfield and I do give a nod to it in my coaching program that I’m developing right now, but it’s this concept of turning pro, and he identifies the difference between a professional and an amateur and how they show up in the world. I was playing amateur for eight years. I played amateur. I was good. I wasn’t great. And I wasn’t fully committed. I didn’t work on myself. I didn’t grow myself. I didn’t do any of the things I’m doing. And you know, 21 years later, I’m older now, but I’m definitely–  you would think I would have more tenacity and fire and hustle in me then… but I wasn’t, I wasn’t a pro. I turned pro in the process. And that moment that that happened was the one that you know about. And the story I told you, Dom, where in real estate you got to be careful because you can’t rest on your laurels. You gotta get after it every day. Just like you said, we wake up every day, every morning we wake up at zero.  And even if you have some things in the pipeline, I think that’s helpful to have the mentality of I’m waking up at zero today because you never know. Deals fall apart, sales don’t happen, they don’t get to the closing table. And I was operating as an amateur, meaning I had one sale that was supposed to close in December, and when it didn’t happen, everything fell apart, and it was awful. I had two young daughters at home, and a son on the way. And the closing, I think, was supposed to happen December 12th. I remember the date, and of course it didn’t happen. And I think it got pushed until January. So, I was relying on that. Everything looked good, right? It didn’t happen. So I wasn’t properly prepared. I didn’t have an emergency fund the way I have now. And I didn’t build a pipeline and all of those things. So, when that happened, I had to tell my wife, “Hey, uh, this is what’s going on, and uh, Christmas is going to be pretty lean this year.” And, so we couldn’t buy the girls really much of anything. And of course Jenny and I would give gifts back and forth, but we had to limit that. She got me something kind of goofy. I kind of joke about it to this day, but it wasn’t funny at the time because it represented the desperate state, and I was really worried because we had just purchased a house six months earlier that was three times the value of the one we had moved out of so all of this converging into one moment of: That’s it. No more. I’m done. That’s the last time that’s ever going to happen. And so that was the turning point, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. I had to make some massive changes. So I had to, um, go into the cave that I feared to enter. And that cave was coaching. I didn’t want to pay for it. I didn’t know how to pay for it. I had hired an assistant. These things all happened in 90 days: hired my first full-time assistant, hired a coaching company to coach me to improve my real estate business. And three, I took a course that was drilled right down the center of what we’re talking about today. I got my own office space. All of this happened in six months that the office came to be. And that was all based on that one moment of, “Never again.” That’s it. That’s where I–

Right, and not to make the audience think that you were, you know, you couldn’t put food on the table, right? But from a dad perspective, you’re like, man–  You felt bombed that you did not plan. You just didn’t feel like you were giving it your best, right, ultimately at that moment?

Well, that’s what it is. So, you know, Jenny was a stay at home mom at the time. She wasn’t working. So the family relied on me and…shame on me. You know, and yeah. I mean, a lot of folks have stories about hitting rock bottom and that wasn’t rock bottom. No. That wasn’t what that was. That was something that hit me hard as a father, as a provider. That’s what it was. And knowing that I wasn’t doing my part, that hurt. 

That motivated you to decide “I’m going to get serious about this.” This is not going to happen again. I’m going to ensure that I have my business in such a way that this doesn’t happen again, that your cashflow is to a place you’ve mentioned you having. So in your business, that’s so essential. But that being said, you did not know where to start, correct? You had to go ask somebody, right?

I had to seek guidance. Of course. Yeah. I didn’t know where to start. I had seen– here’s what I saw: I saw a lot of agents around me outperforming me, but for no good reason. Not for any reason that I could identify, and then I started to figure it out. Well, wait a minute. What they’re doing is they’re choosing a path and a lane and going deep in that lane. And I failed to do that. I was spread all over the place and wasn’t doing anything specifically great. I wasn’t mastering any discipline. And so those are some things I see that, that’s really what it comes down to it. It’s not about real estate, not at all.

It really is about doing things in a certain way,  right? 

That’s it. 

So today–  now the audience has a feel for who Kevin is. This is a guy who runs a successful business and I feel like it’s a very tough business. Top 1%. He’s gone through the highs and lows. He also is very, very interested and excited to help people achieve goals. So that’s who Kevin is. So today, what we want to talk about, this is like my “living the dream” series. “What’s the Benefit” is my podcast and we talk about benefits, uh, products, etc. But this today is about more of the living the dream section, which is, “Hey, we’re just going to get fired up.” Kevin, what I want to talk to you about today is–  it’s January. Everybody has their goals for the year. Um, but I really want to talk about goal setting because what I learned in our course that we did together was the difference between an A goal, a B goal, and a C type goal. And this comes from the work of a gentleman that we both really like named Bob Proctor. He’s somebody who was kind of a trainer, teacher, motivational speaker, you name it, but he kind of coalesced a ton of different information from books. And  anyway, he explained that that’s really what the course was centered around is goal achievement. But I never up to the time I worked with you ever thought about goal setting in the way that you taught me to. So I really want to talk about that in today’s environment, early in the year, everyone’s kind of starting to make their goals this year. So do you mind taking us through A, B and C goals? 

Yeah, I’d love to. It’s one of my favorite topics. Strangely enough, it’s not people’s favorite topics. It’s not, and I know that from splits, splits testing, YouTube video content for personal growth and development. And whenever you put the word “goals” and “crush your goals” or goals this or goals that, they don’t get as many views. And I wonder about that. You know, I wonder if it’s because most folks aren’t accomplishing their goals and they just don’t want to be reminded of that. I was never a big goal setter until I stumbled upon this concept of the A type goal, the B type goal, and the C type goal, these three different types of goals that we can set. And if you really study it—and study is a good word, by the way, let’s just kind of put that as a placeholder—because studying is different than reading, study is different than browsing, studying is deep work on anything, any discipline. And so I’ve studied goal setting and achievement, I think more than most, more than a lot of people anyway, but, A type goals, these are the goals that if you took like an A, B and C type goal,  well, let me just frame it this way– The whole point (it’s important to know this), this is why goals don’t get accomplished is because the entire point of going after a goal is to cause growth in the individual. Is to be a better version of oneself once one has arrived, once the individual has the goal, is driving the car, is in the dream home, has the person in their life that was the goal, or they are the person that they aspire to be an individual that’s like, say, a public speaker or a motivator or a dream job, any of those things. Once they have it, they would have, in order for it to be the type of goal we’re referring to, which is the third type, the C type, it’s required that they grow in the process. And so if growth isn’t a part of the goal experience, then there’s not enough “why” behind it. What’s the point?

I never thought about it that way. And I really didn’t care when we first started talking about that. Like I don’t care about if I grow, but that’s not true. I absolutely do care. Cause when you achieve a goal, you look back, you’re like, wow, I learned so much achieving that goal. The goal is cool, but what you went through, to me, is more fun and the people you did it with. So to your point, I just want to add to that. 

Yeah. Well, that’s really great. I mean, you know, a lot of people aren’t going to vocalize that they want to grow, but as you begin to study it, you know, if you’re not moving towards something, you’re actually going backwards because the world is evolving. The universe is expanding and we’re built like—  our creator put within us this magnificent thing that we’re goal strivers and we’re built that way. And we’re not going to be happy unless you’re actually doing as we’re functioned, as that goal striver. Our subconscious  minds, they serve as this goal striving instrument, if you will, it’s like baked into us and it’s like, it creates this, like, we got to move towards it. If you remove the goal, you’re finding yourself strangely loyal to trivialities, like gossip, news, unimportant things, social media. Um, and so  imagine it like this: take a goal away, but then it’s like riding a bike without any forward progress. You just sit there and all of a sudden you tilt over, right? You gotta move towards something. So take the goal away and you’re, you’re just meandering. You’re lost. You don’t have purpose. Um, and so this is the, this is the thing to know. But when most people are laying on an A goal, because an A type goal is rooted in what we call paradigms. You might get into that in this conversation today, Dom, but essentially it’s the vantage point or the filter through which we’re looking at the world. And if somebody was programmed through their upbringing, um, mom and dad say, or church says, or whatever those teachers, people that are around them telling them this is what’s possible, then their goals are going to be very limited. If the individuals that taught them that way, or their lenses were clogged with possibility, then they’re going to set goals that are A type goals. And they’re usually like, um, I hate to give examples because then that means I’m trying to make fun of that type of goal….

I’ll give one. An A goal for me every year is, “All right, it’s January, I’m going to lose 20 pounds” and I always achieve it. I know how to achieve it. I know how to get it. There’s no… I just need to stop putting stuff in my mouth. Right. That’s just what it is. So it’s not exciting. That’s not an exciting goal, but that’s an A type goal. 

Yeah. That’s great. You know, the one I can throw out there would be, let’s say you’ve already bought a car, a particular vehicle. You’ve already done it. And then you say, okay, yeah, my goal this year is I’m gonna buy another car, just like the one I just had. Or, you know, maybe you’re hitting a goal in business or a sales goal. You already did it last year. Maybe in real estate, if say I sold 20 homes last year, I’m going to sell 22. 

Well, okay, good goal. You already know how to do it, right? 

Yeah, good goal, whatever. But you’re not moving the needle forward. You’re not going to be happy with that. It’s not going to cause growth in the process. So that’s an A goal. A “B” goal would be, okay, take out a pad of paper. You say, okay, here’s what I did last year. Using it as a jumping off place. Um, let me plot out what that goal is going to look like on a pad of paper. If you can plot it all out, A to B to C to D to E to, all the way at the end, and you actually know all the steps along the way, that’s a B type goal. You already know from the start you can accomplish it. And for that very reason, you have all the answers lined up. It’s not a C type goal. There’s no inspiration in it. It’s not a bad goal.  It’s just you’re not going to be inspired to do it. You’re going to knock it out, but you’re probably not going to be fulfilled the process. And this gets people’s feathers all ruffled by the way. Like, what do you mean I’m not going to?

They’re all goals. And B type goals for me, that’s what we do at Benefit Profiles. And I want to talk about this a little bit later, but for 2024 we set, you know, the premium we want to sell, the agents we want to meet, all of that. You’re not saying those are necessarily bad. Let’s pause there. Let’s talk about a C goal. It’s a stretch goal and a lot of times in our business, we’ll call it a stretch goal. So we might say, “okay, here’s our goal, but here’s our stretch goal.” Right? If we have a really good year…

Yeah. Well, and I also don’t describe it that way. Not because that’s bad. Again, it’s because that term of “stretch goal” is overused. It’s just basically taking a B type goal and then adding a cherry on top of it.

You kind of have to just throw the B goal away for a minute. I don’t try to compare it or add on to it because a C type goal is rooted in one simple question that most people fail to ask themselves, and that is, “what do I really want?” What do I want? We call that, uh, it’s called a worthy ideal. And you choose one for life, and for your personal life and then for your business. But this is something that you’re trading your life for. And when you go after a goal of this magnitude, it should be outside of the realm of what you consider to be possible. Oh, you’re like, well, how can I get it if it’s not possible? No, no, no, no. It’s outside of the realm of your level of awareness. You don’t know how you’re gonna do it. Because you’re not that person yet. And so if you think about it that way, you’re evolving, the answers are unfolding along the way. You set the goal that is so big and massive and the goal, the target, draws the arrow. The people, the circumstances, the events, the opportunities, the connections, the phone calls, the seemingly serendipitous things that occur on the way are that path unfolding before you because you set the goal and it’s drawing the arrow. The arrow are all the circumstances that lead you to it. And you’re evolving along the way. You’re figuring stuff out. You’re ratcheting it up your level of confidence, your self image is improving, you’re moving after something big. That is what that is. It’s a goal worth trading your life for. Because that’s what you’re doing. And so you got to ask, here’s the question. What do I really want? What do I really want to be? What do I really want to do? 

What do I really want to have? 

What do I really want to have? Be, do, and have. There it is. Those are the types of goals that inspire you. And I always, I always preface that by saying it’s the kind of goal that’ll get you out of bed at 4:30 in the morning before your alarm clock goes off. I’m getting out of bed at 4:30 in the morning without an alarm clock these days. But I’m fired up to go after my goal. So it’s actually accurate. It’s a hundred percent accurate. And if you’re not that excited about it, you’re probably not in a C goal. You’re doing something different.

I love that. Can you talk about– do you advise people to have only a C goal or could they have little B goals along the way? And, you and I have talked about this a lot and you’re always like “Dom, come on, you know” but go ahead. 

Well, no, it’s a great question. Before I give you the answer to that, which I almost did earlier, but I somehow figured we’re going to get here. In order to know how to define– Because a lot of times, as I’m coaching somebody through the process of setting this type of goal, they come back and they’re like, here’s my goal and we break it down, I say, “Well, did you run it through the target?” I call them targets in my program, your target criteria, your goal criteria. And the answer is they hit one of the five. So it’s important to know the criteria. So you’re ready for the criteria? Let me give this to you. Because if you can write it down, then you’ll know you hit on the type of goal that we’re referring to, If you hit all five points. Number one: you’ve never done it before.  It’s brand new to you. You didn’t do it two years ago, three years ago, etc. Number two is you don’t know how it will happen You don’t have all the answers lined up You kind of have a sense, maybe, that it’ll go this way, but I just don’t know yet. 

You might know the first step you would take.

Yes, you know the first step, that’s right. You’re like, okay, here’s the first thing I’m going to do. Exactly right, it’s a jumping off place. Number three is it excites you so much that it’ll push you out of bed before the alarm goes off. I already talked about that, but it has to be that kind of a goal. Because you can’t stop it. You know, people put the word “obsessed” in the wrong category. I love the word obsessed, because if you’re not obsessed, uh, Grant Cardone wrote a book, Be Obsessed or Be Average. B O B A, right? Because you got to get to that level of like, that’s all you talk about. That’s what you dream about. That’s what you visualize. It’s what you bug your friends about. Like, that’s what I’m up to. There goes crazy Yoder again, talking about… There goes crazy Dom. It’s got to be that way. Number four is it scares you because you’re venturing out into the unknown. You’ve never been here before. It might be a little scary because you’re like, geez, I don’t even know what I’m doing. I’m clunky. It’s all new to me. I’ve got to learn this new skill set. That might be a little scary. Number five, and I already talked about that, it causes you to grow in the process. That’s the most important part of the whole thing. So let’s say you set that goal out there, and it’s this big goal. You don’t know how to get there. And you’re like, what about these other ones, these little ones? Imagine your C type goal is the sun. Now, what’s around the sun? What’s circles around the sun? 


Yeah. You know, stars are around too, but my bigger point was those little planets are all around the sun, those could be like the goals, those little B goals. Now, the interesting thing about that is if you’re moving from the earth all the way through to, you’re going to go to the sun and you’re on earth, you’re going to pass by little planets on the way to get to the sun. And those are the B type goals, those A’s and B’s, but they’ll seem like when you set a goal, this big, the C type goal, those B goals, they’ll seem like check boxes to you. You know, you’re going to do that. So if someone says, okay, here’s this big C type goal. And then let’s say that they were going to do a goal of losing 20 pounds, but the C type goal was this big, massive goal that did require them in order for them to accomplish that they needed to have high energy. They needed to go all day, 10 hours a day for a year or two years. They needed to be a better version of themselves. They needed to be more energized than they’ve ever been in their life and they have to feel good every day. They’re going to set the 20 pounds along the way, right? 

Yeah. And A goal would be lose 20 pounds. I’ve done that. I do it every year. The C goal is with a date on it. We’re going to talk about the dates in a second. “By September 1st, I’m going to run a marathon.” I’ve never run a marathon. That seems pretty dang scary to me. If I don’t want to. (That’s not my goal for everybody on the call. There’s no way I’m running a marathon, but that would be a C goal for me).

Right, I’m with you. So then if the marathon is a C type goal. Then the 5k might be the B goal and then the A goal would be whatever, like, running a mile. You guys get this. So you’re going to get those on the way there, but just land on the C goal first and then start figuring out these little things that you’re going to do on the way there. You’ll likely hit those all on the way to your C type goal. 

Talk about— We’ve talked about this a lot, you and I, on timelines. You know, in the course, Bob Proctor really taught to put a timeframe on your goal. Uh, you and I’ve talked about that. You come to it a little bit differently, but do you mind, there is a benefit to having a time around your goal, correct?

Yeah. I mean, we’ve learned that we carry goal cards in our pockets. Goal card is like, you identify your goal and you put a gratitude statement on it. I’m so happy and grateful now that “_____.”  And then you list the goal below it. In the present tense, present affirmative tense, so that you’re saying it’s as though it’s already done. You don’t say, “I am this or I have that.” Okay. But then at the very top, it says “by this date.” So the reason for that is that you’re giving it a timeline, you’re focused in on it, your subconscious cannot help you accomplish a target that you don’t have. And so, if you just kind of keep it loosey goosey, the idea here is that you don’t want to give yourself 10 years. It’s too far out. The finish line is way too far out. And you might lose steam in the process. And it puts a little pressure on the situation, and then massaging that a little bit and looking at it a little bit deeper, I’m not sure if you want me to share that most recent, uh, thought on, you know….

No, I think, no, it’s okay. I think that if the timeline stresses you out, it’s probably the wrong timeline. It’s a weird one. That’s where, if you’re really interested in this stuff, that’s where I would have you talk to Kevin because you got to fall in a place where you’re feeling good about the goal, where it’s not too far out that it doesn’t matter, where it’s feeling achievable, that you have some date on it. But if you set the date too close, and you’re just in your heart feel like there’s no way ever, then I think that’s too close. You want to feel excited by the goal, not pressured by. Don’t you agree? 

Yeah, of course. And yet, you know, the interesting thing about the goal setting  process is that when somebody hasn’t done the deep work, let’s say self image, working on the self image, ratcheting up the thermostat on that and the paradigms and removing the old and replacing with the new… You’re setting a goal, but running it through the filter of the old you.


I mean, so buried with it, right? Even within the goal setting process, you’re likely to land on something that’s far below what’s possible for you. You might get that date all jacked up too, because you push it out too far because you think it’s going to take you 10 years, whereas someone else could do that in six months. You know what I mean? So I think it’s good to have the date. Like you said. 

When it goes to big goals, that’s just where my personal– that’s where I got caught up. But what I found is my– because I have this big goal for Benefit Profiles, my day-to-day is driven by “we are not there yet.” Um, so I’ve landed on a place where I’m comfortable with it. And my C goal is surrounding the company, and in the growth, and seeing the employees and the different products we could sell and seeing insurance agents. Um, and it drives me every day. It took a while, but I landed where I needed to be on that. Do you feel comfortable sharing like a C goal that you’ve achieved? 


Do you have one off the top or no? 

Well, I had a financial, uh, when I first started. Remember, I’ve been in this for a long time. So when you accomplish a C type goal, a great thing about it is you just reset. You do another one, you know, so it takes you three years to accomplish it. Uh, when I first joined the coaching with Bob and, you know, started to coach entrepreneurs, I had set my own goals. They were around– the first one was around clients to the coaching program. The other one was a net worth goal. And I’ve already accomplished that. I blew through the net worth goal. And now in this new version of me, my goals are around the impact of–  my C type goal is a impact of the number of individuals I’m going to be serving through my new program that I’m developing right now. And the other one is surrounding loads of transportation that requires thrust and high elevations, that’s my personal goal haha, so we’ll talk about that later. 

Oh, wait. Okay. So that’s the one.

Yeah. Yeah. 

When you’re saying these goals…. Going after big goals, what I found is there will be people around you who, again, they’re in a mindset of just go for 2 percent increase or 10 percent better every year. I think one thing I admire about you, Kev, is you just march to your own drum and if someone doesn’t agree with your goal you’re like, “well, thank you. I don’t care.” And you got to have a little bit of that when you’re going after the big ones, right? 

Well, I think you have to have a lot of that. And that’s something that takes time because, oh gosh, we could talk about this one right here for three hours. And I know we don’t have three hours, but the people in your life, we all come to this physical experience with an agenda, I believe. And what I’m up to is my own business. Like I’ve got my own thing. You’ve got your own thing. So it’s very impossible for anybody to possibly understand what’s driving me or what my unique gifts are, so how could they possibly feel the way I feel about that? And you know, the more you study this and dig into it, this spiritual journey, they could never fathom that, you know? And so it sounds crazy, but you know, most of us have suppressed these desires, and our family and society and friends and neighbors mostly want you to stay where you are. 


Because it hurt, right? You’re flying the coop. And that means that by virtue of that, they’re staying where they are. And deep down inside, they recognize that. They’re not going to admit that. But they’re not living your life, so they could never possibly understand what you have in your heart, what you’re up to. And so most people, if they’re being honest with themselves, they would want to be able to go after something if they could somehow land back on it again, you know, it’s deep down in there, they may be giving up at some point, but we don’t owe any explanations. If you think about it, why do you want that? Because I want it. Well, why? Why do you need that? I didn’t say I needed it. I said I wanted it. You know, “Desire,” break the word down, Desire of the father. Like there’s a reason why you want something. Why? I don’t know why, right? I just told you that I want to buy a jet, do I need it? No, but for some strange reason, and I can’t quite land on it, I don’t even care. I just, I just want that. And I also want to help people with this program. I didn’t ask for it, you know, it’s just what I want to do. 

Speaking of the jet, landing the plane here, Kev. If you’re somebody who is listening to this podcast going, these two kooks are crazy… But somebody out there also is like, “huh, that’s interesting.” What I would tell them is the reason why I wanted to share with Kevin is it’s just a new perspective on goal setting, and it will probably confuse you or bug you first. Would you agree with that, Kevin?

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was bugged by it. 

It bugs me right now. Not bugs me, it confuses me still. I’m like, gosh, am I  reaching for where I should be reaching for? I still feel like a pretty good button. If you’re somebody out there, you listen to this and you’re like, Oh, don’t, please don’t—  My reaction when I first started talking to Kevin about this stuff was to feel bad about myself, which is a silly reaction. It is what it is. Uh, I felt like, Oh gosh, I’m not doing goal setting, right? That’s just the reaction I have to everything when I learned something new. So don’t do that. What do you think they should do? I’m going to tell them what I think they should do, but go ahead. If they’re very curious. 

Yeah. Okay. So if you just, if they’re very curious about—

So how do they use this when they’re looking at their goals, whether it be, you know, what their annual, whether it be a personal goal or a professional goal; how do they use this new way of looking at goal setting to really go to that C level? What would be the first step in their personal life?

So the first step is to just be Dill, believe it or not. Just sit down and ask yourself, what do I really want? And let’s just say it’s on the personal side for a minute, in your personal life. And then all of a sudden, here’s what happens though, is we have these things called paradigms and you know, the game whack a mole, where these, these little moles pop up and you’re just batting them down, beating them down. It’s kind of like that, because what happens is, is, well, you know what, I’ve always wanted that, you know, I’ve always wanted that, and then you’re just there for a minute, like you’re off in thought, you know, thought bubble on the side of your head, you know, you’re just like, yeah, that’s, I get that, yeah, I see what Kevin was saying, I do want that… and all of a sudden, boom, it pops up. Yeah, you don’t have the money for that. Boom, it pops up. Well, I got to ask my spouse and they’re not going to let you do boom, like, like financial and, and knowledge around it. All these paradigms are popping up, talking you out of it. That’s where you got to push them down and take that hammer and beat the mole on top of the head and say, this is not the time for the how part, the how part comes later. Let’s I’ll get back to you in a minute. Now we’re going to sit down again and we’re going to do this one more time, which is. What do I really want? And if that thing bubbles up and you’re being true to yourself and you’re not letting your paradigms talk you out of it, you’re gonna land on something that meant something to you at one point. You’ve always wanted it and you’ve suppressed it. Or maybe you’re in the process, you were inspired by something at one point. It’s that thing! You don’t know why you want it. You don’t have to argue, by the way. And that’s the other thing. Most people will go right into justification mode. Well, I want it because this— no, no, no, no, no, there’s no justification needed. You want it because you want it. And that’s a conversation to have with yourself and with other people that are about to jump on you and tell you that you shouldn’t. Why do you need that? It’s not a need. It’s a want. So that’s the first thing I would say is get clear on it and write it down. Once you figure out what that thing is, start writing down. “I want this because…” And then underneath that and say, why is that important? And then below that again, right? Well, why is that important? And then below that, right? But why is that important? And then below that, right? Well, why is that important? And as you go seven levels deep with the “why,  you’re going to land on something at the very bottom that is life altering. And if you’re not in tears by the end, you haven’t done it right. That’s what I would recommend you do. 

And then write it down if you want. If you want, certainly reach out to me and I can connect you with Kevin. I will put Kevin’s contact information in the podcast information. You don’t have to talk to me or Kevin, but Kevin’s got some cool ideas, ultimately, and he’s a good guy to talk to when you’re developing this stuff. One thing that I think you helped me with, Kevin, as a friend is just encouraging. Like everything’s cool. I just tend to like, if I make a goal, I feel like I have to achieve it tomorrow, you know, and you really helped me understand like, no, this is a journey. We’re, we’re going to be fine. And you need some buddies on the journey. That’s all. 

Uh, yeah, a hundred percent. It’s the concept of, grateful for now, eager for tomorrow, you know, grateful for today. Excited for tomorrow. And you know, if you have a hard time landing on something, sometimes it’s helpful to reverse engineer it and bring yourself to the end of the life journey. I love how Steve Jobs said it. He’s like, look, knowing that you’re going to die someday is a pretty eye opening experience and that’s all you need to know. And he said, what are you waiting for? You’re already naked. I’m sure if you remember his quote, like he said that before he passed. So I would just encourage everybody to look at it that way and and know that just know that we’re meant to move towards things. And when you remove a big goal, this is important. I gosh, darn it, Dom. We don’t have enough time. But like, if you remove a big goal and you just like, okay, I don’t have a big goal. I don’t have a C goal. I’ve got an A goal. Well, we’re wired to move towards things. So imagine you take the sun out of the way. Now you have these little planets all over the place. Right? Well, imagine those planets are, um, YouTube videos, uh, Facebook, uh, TikTok, um, and the like, and gossip news, and just nonsense. Well, we’ll go towards those, too, because in the absence of a clearly defined goal, we find ourselves strangely loyal to trivialities, and that’s what that means. That means that we will lock onto anything and move towards it, and so that’s why it’s important that this “it” is big and beautiful and causes us to grow in the process. 

That is the point of having you on, is the goal itself. Having that point will take you to where you need to go. You don’t know how to get there. When I started working with you, I was hoping you were going to tell me what things I had to do. How would you have known that? You’d never run a general agency before. You don’t even know. Like I really, genuinely, when I joined the entrepreneurs organization, I said, I want BPI to be this ______. So I’m going to join this organization. They’re going to teach me how to do that. Kind of. We learned some like organizational stuff, right? But no one can really tell you the steps you have to take. You only know the steps looking backward. That’s another thing Steve Jobs said is we can only connect the dots looking backwards. We can’t connect them going forward. We don’t know their big goals. So if anything the audience takes from this is, embrace goal setting, be encouraged by what you heard here from Kevin, kind of think about the exercises he told you and see where that takes you. And if you have any more curiosity, by all means, Kevin’s in Grand Rapids, he could do a Teams call or call. Get to know him.

I’d be happy to do that, brother. And dude, you brought up such a good point there. So you said that you wanted me to tell you how to do it, but I did in the real estate space. But in the real estate space, imagine what that looks like when I have agents saying, Hey Yoder, you’ve been successful in real estate and you’ve got this coaching program, teach me how to do it. And what I share with them is that we don’t do what we know how to do. There’s books on that, right? Like, we get it, like, people know how to invest money and you know how much, you know, dollar cost averaging and, but why is everybody broke? And in real estate, there’s a book called The Millionaire Real Estate Agent book. It literally teaches you how to build a net million a year and think and grow. So it’s because we don’t do what we know how to do. We do what we’re programmed to do. And so what I help people do is go deeper than the tactics and strategies. Because this is about how to program yourself for success and abundance and prosperity. And so when you do that, you will follow through with, seek out, and identify the people, the circumstances, the very best and most effective tactics and strategies for attracting wealth and building abundance, because you’ll be programmed to do so because that’s who you are, not just something that you do. That’s the difference. 

It is. Yeah. Well, Kev, as always, thanks so much, man. Thanks for your time. We could talk forever. 

We could. We do. Yeah. We will. 

Yeah. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. And, um, I will see you very soon. 

It’s my pleasure. It’s my pleasure, brother. Thanks for having me on, Dom.

I appreciate you, man. 

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Dominic Siciliano

President, Agent Consultant

Over his 18 years in the benefits business Dominic has worked in the Medicare Advantage, small group Blue Cross medical, ancillary GA and large group benefit admin space here in Michigan. His parents and biggest influences, Patricia Siciliano and John McClain, instilled in him the key pillar to GA benefits business—relationships with agents and carriers. Dominic has served as the NABIP West Michigan President twice. He’s run the golf outing several years going and he served at the Legislative Co Chair for the State Board during the passing of PPACA. His Friday morning classes, Employee Benefits 101, is highly regarded in the industry as a practical, real world introduction to the business for new folks. In short, he is passionate about our business and about seeing agents succeed. 

Dominic loves golf and basketball but as he gets older, golf more. He’s a Western grad but a State fan! He most enjoys spending time with wife Janelle and four children outdoors and Up North! From the very early days of BPI when it was just him and Lena in a tiny little office, he hasn’t changed, it’s about getting the job done for agents.